Yesterday I focused on the dictionary as the best desert island book part of W.H. Auden’s quote. Today, let’s consider the first part of the quote:
Though a work of literature can be read in a number of ways, this number is finite and can be arranged in a hierarchical order; some readings are obviously ‘truer’ than others, some doubtful, some obviously false, and some, like reading a novel backwards, absurd. That is why, for a desert island, one would choose a good dictionary rather than the greatest literary masterpiece imaginable, for, in relation to its readers, a dictionary is absolutely passive and may legitimately be read in an infinite number of ways.
I am fairly confident that we can all agree about a book having a finite number of readings–interpretations, ways of understanding it, arguments. But how in agreement is the book blogosphere on there being a hierarchical order of readings from truer to doubtful to false and absurd? In past meanderings I have come across posts that argue all readings are equally valid. I have also been to book discussions with the same prevailing belief. But such a belief makes it difficult to talk about books, to disagree with a reading, and darn near impossible to learn how to be a better reader.
I do believe that there is a hierarchy, or maybe continuum is a better word, of readings. There is no one right reading of a book, but there are many truer readings to use Auden’s word. A good reading has to be supported by the book itself, one must be able to point to parts of the text as evidence to support one’s opinion. Also, there needs to be an accumulation of evidence. It is not enough to say a book is bad because I didn’t like the protagonist. I must delve into the book and show the protagonist is nothing but a two-dimensional stock character operating on cliches. Likewise, it is not good enough to call a book a masterpiece just because I enjoyed it.
Here is a question, is it the responsibility of readers, especially book bloggers, to help each other become better readers? And if so, how do we go about doing that? If we have not read the book being discussed it is hard to say more than, “wow, this sounds good!” But it is possible to do more than that by asking a question about the book or an observation made by the blogger. I am guilty of taking the lazy way out a lot of the time, but now and then I will ask a question about the book and I must say, even for having not read the book under discussion, I suddenly feel more engaged, more interested, more connected.
Then of course, there are books I have read. Again, I am guilty of being lazy and saying things like, “I loved this book too!” But sometimes I might comment on how I read the book differently and suddenly there is a conversation. I must say I like it when people make respectful comments questioning my reading. My first feeling when I see comments like that is to feel bad or indignant. It is not a comfortable feeling to be questioned. But then I tell myself to not be stupid and I take time to consider the comment and make a response and in the process I find I learn something new about the book. And if the conversation continues for a bit I might even change my opinion because the evidence given in response turns out to point in a different direction than I thought. These are always learning moments and I value them because they help me become a better reader.
Tom at Wuthering Expectations and Teresa at Shelf Love have inspired great conversation about comments and disagreement. And in a way I suppose I am talking about the same thing. But I don’t want to focus on the comments, rather our responsibility as readers to one another.
I don’t think I have ever come across anyone who doesn’t want to be a better reader but it seems the onus is always on the individual to do something about it. And one should. But how? Sure there are books and while they can and do offer good advice it is kind of all in a vacuum. There is also reading professional critics. And while this is really useful it can sometimes feel like an expert telling me what to think. The best way to become a better reader is by talking to other readers and when one is no longer in college this can be tricky. If you are lucky enough to belong to a book group that is more than a social club then you have a great opportunity to learn. Bloggers have a good opportunity too but it relies on the willingness of others to say more than “great post!”
This post has gone where I did not see it going, but I have come to a point where I feel like I need to make a pledge. Not a promise, but a pledge. I can’t promise I won’t ever be lazy in my comments. I can, however, pledge to do my best to reply to comments here and on other blogs in a thoughtful and engaged way. I owe it to myself and to other bloggers/readers to help create the kind of engaged book community that we all long for.
Very good questions! Whenever I blog about a book my greatest hope is that someone will chime in with a different opinion and we can have an exchange about it. That’s why my blog’s comment prompt is “What do you think?” Alas, I rarely get any meaty opinions, though perhaps that’s partly because I don’t blog very often or on current books.
At the other end, after many years of being chastised for my INTJ love of arguing, I’m reluctant to challenge anyone’s take on a book, at least not someone I don’t know very well. I’ve been told it’s simply not polite to question people and I should be more “supportive,” which I gather means agreeing with everything they say. Of course that makes any kind of substantive discussion impossible, but it seems to be the ruling social ethic these days, online and offline.
Since I do not enjoy getting my head bitten off, I have contented myself to–at the risk of sounding pompous–lead by example. I’m well aware there are legions of better readers out there than me (pretty much anyone with an English degree, for starters), but perhaps there are others who might be improved by reading serious blog posts about serious books (or at least attempts at such).
That said I applaud your commitment to an engaged amateur litblogosphere and I’ll back you up as much as I can. INTJs unite! 😉
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I think the culture of making challenging comments varies between online cultures. In the science blogs I read, there are all sorts of debates carried out in the comments. In the book blogging world though, there seems to be less of a culture of debate which I personally think is too bad.
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Quite right. Science *is* an argument. 😀
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biblioglobal, the culture of science is one of argument and debate and proof. I don’t want book culture to be argumentative, but I do wish there was more debate because, like you, I think it would do us good. At the very least, it would keep things lively!
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I think there is probably a happy middle ground of encouraging debate and discussion without being argumentative. This post and the responses are a good example of that!
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biblioglobal, I think you are right! 🙂
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Thank you dear Sylvia! I’ve never been accused of being argumentative but then I learned early to keep a good many opinions to myself 😉 And when I do express opinions it has been a long hard road to learn how to be tactful. So I wonder if there isn’t a way to argue but in a supportive manner? Wrap some sugar around it all. Say something like, I like what you say about X but I also think Y because of Z. Maybe that would help a person not feel poked? I will never bite your head off so please don’t feel like you must censor yourself here!
I can say that even though I do have an English degree I still always look for ways to improve my reading. Such a background gives me a toolkit but it is no guarantee that I always know what tools to use or how to employ them for any given book. It also doesn’t mean I might not be lazy or sloppy. I truly believe that degree or not anyone who reads carefully has something valuable and interesting to contribute even venturing a bad reading is useful because it presents an opportunity to improve our skills.
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Yes, I have tried the “compliment sandwich” (compliment on one side, disagreement in the middle, compliment on the other side), but unfortunately it is human nature to focus on the negative so it doesn’t really work and can come across as disingenuous.
Indeed, an English degree is neither a guarantee of nor a prerequisit for good reading, but I think it helps. 🙂
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Sylvia, that was a tasty compliment sandwich! 🙂 We humans do like to focus on the negative. At some point I think it is appropriate to say “get over it!” but that never goes over well either 😀 An English degree does help, I won’t deny that, but I don’t think one is required in order to be a good reader.
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In my view most readers has a different hierarchy of books. Other readers have no hierarchy. They take books as they are, latching on to those that speak to them. I respect and value this view. On the other hand, it is the act of reading that is essential, any book, widely regarded or not. Sustaining the culture of reading per se is what is most important to me.
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Interesting questions. The blogosphere does have a lot of potential in helping people think about reading better (whatever better is.)I wonder if there is a nervousness about serious disagreement about books or critical standards that might degenerate into bitterness and flaming and I can certainly understand that.I shall take a look at Wuthering Expectations and Shelf Love.
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Ian, thanks! Lots of slippery words. Better as in the skill to delve deeply into a book and get as much out of it as we can. Granted, not everything we read requires deep diving, but you know what I mean. I hope 🙂 I suspect there is a nervousness over disagreeing. No one wants to hurt anyone’s feelings. But I think there can be respectful discussion that includes agreement and disagreement and we all get to practice our critical reading and thinking skills.
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Did you ever see that book “Post Modern Pooh”? This is a spoof collection of essays at an academic conference about the great bear and each comes from a different theoretical angle – New Historicist; Post Colonial; Structuralist etc,etc. It is brilliantly done because the “essays” are both convincing parodies but also are oddly persuasive in themselves. As readers without a theoretical angle it might be difficult for us to talk about books other than a loose and conversational way.
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Ian, you know, I think I might have that book on my shelves somewhere or maybe I have just seen it and intended to read it but never have. Now I’m going to have to try and find it!
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Richard, but what about a hierarchy of not books, but interpretations–criticism–of books? I agree we all latch on to books that speak to us and tell us something about ourselves. That is the beauty of storytelling. A culture of reading is also important. But not every book is the kind that speaks to us and when we have more than one person reading the same book, some of those people will understand it and interpret it better than others.
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Great post! Oops. (Only kidding, Stef…couldn’t resist being me). I’m not sure how I feel about placing myself in a position in which I have expectations of making someone a better reader. Oh, sure, as a mother of young children I certainly was in that position. I read to them, we talked about the story, and I encouraged them to read more and ever more challenging stuff. But to be honest, the people I’ve met on the book blogoshere already seem to see things in a book that might be lost on me, whereas, I can usually only state whether I liked something I’ve read. I have to parrot Sylvia, I often feel I’ll insult someone who loves a book that I found pretentious or overwritten or just plain lousy. (A lot of “prize winning” books often fit in that category.) But I think you are ultimately on to something with this post. Since almost everyone I follow is a better reader than I, I would welcome more substantive comments on my blog. Of course, although my blog has an overall theme of reading, my posts aren’t always about a single work…and I don’t write very often. Still, I follow a lot of the same blogs that you do, and I look forward to your comments. (But honestly, Stefanie, your comments usually are the more pithy ones out there, so I think you’re pretty much already living up to your pledge.) Carry on!
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Grad, you crack me up! I bet you are the life of the party with all the best jokes and comebacks, aren’t you? 😀
Oh no, I am not suggesting we place ourselves in a position of authority in order to teach someone else who doesn’t know better. That would be bad news and egotistical. What I am wondering is whether we owe it to ourselves and each other to help improve our reading skills by becoming more engaged in the give and take of discussion whether that is through comments or private email or even leaping off of someone else’s post and writing one on your own blog. I think you have plenty to contribute to the process even if someone else might see something in a book you didn’t. There are ways too of disagreeing without being insulting and we don’t have to disagree to be able to have a good conversation. Or am I viewing things through rose colored glasses?
You are sweet and kind Grad but feel free to tell me I am full of it if you need to. You’re a lawyer so I know you can do it 😉
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Interesting questions! I’m all for literary debate but I’m very nervous about the idea of a ‘hierarchy’ of readings. There’s a danger of elitism here, I think, in an implication that some readings and – if we pursue the line of argument – some readers are ‘better’ than others. I would hate to think that any blog reader felt that their opinions were not worth sharing.
I love arguing, reading and writing about books. If we have any responsibility at all as book bloggers I think it is to encourage reading and stimulate debate. I’m not sure a hierarchy is helpful in that respect. Thoughtful and engaged responses, on the other hand, certainly are.
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Karen, Thanks! I understand your reticence about a hierarchy of readings. It is one reason I suggested continuum might be a better word with fully supported “truer” readings on one end and unsupportable absurd readings on the other. I don’t think there is danger of elitism to say that some interpretations of books are better and more complete than others. This doesn’t have to mean anyone’s thoughts are not worth sharing. I think even the most absurd readings are worth sharing and talking about because they present an opportunity to learn better critical reading and thinking skills. I’d hate to think if when I was reading James Joyce’s Ulysses if I had said it was a book about an alien invasion of Dublin that no one would question my reading and kindly steer me in the right direction.
The intent is not to rank who has interpreted a book better or who is a better reader, but to, as you say encourage reading and stimulate debate. Thoughtful and engaged response, like yours!, is the goal and in that way we help each other improve our critical reading and thinking skills, thus becoming better readers producing better readings. I think reading is a journey and becoming better at reading is an ongoing and never ending process.
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I agree although I have to say that often (and unfortunately) I have those prolonged conversations via one-to-one email because, unless the book is nonfiction, there are often too many spoilers that are involved to have a good discussion!
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rhapsody, do we worry too much about spoilers I wonder? Sometimes I think we do. It’s one thing if the book is a murder mystery but in discussing details of Anna Karenina or Pride and Prejudice are we spoiling anything? I don’t know for sure, but sometimes it seems like we are too careful. It is a shame to keep all the good conversation to private email 🙂
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I have to admit that even for my (upcoming) review of Song of Achilles I was reluctant to talk about what happened in the Battle of Troy, which should be common knowledge, but I fear that it unfortunately is not!
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Rhapsody, I would have no qualms about spilling the beans on the Battle of Troy because, as you note, it should be common knowledge. I understand your hesitation though. I say in this case, be bold! 🙂
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I agree, fear of spoilers are as much of an impediment to good book discussions as excessive politeness. If finding out what happens is the most important thing about a book then it can’t be a very good book. (See why I don’t bother commenting on most book blogs? 😀 )
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Oops, I meant, “fear of spoilers is”…
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Sylvia, heh, grammar correction noted 😉 You make a good point about whether finding out what happens is a quality indicator of the book. I agree with you. Though we don’t always read high quality books, everyone needs a little junk food now and then. In which case I would be careful about spoilers. But knowing Lizzy and Darcy get married at the end of P&P doesn’t ruin the pleasure of the book at all and it should be ok to talk about that.
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Lizzy & Darcy get married in the end?!?! You’ve ruined it!! *stomps off* 😉
Even “junk food” books can be read at a deeper level, as a commentary on social norms, wish fulfillment, the book industry, tired brains, whatever. For instance The Secret Garden can be read as a pleasant nostalgic story from a simpler time or as disturbing propaganda for Christian Science to say nothing of upper class fantasies about happy servants. I ended up not blogging about it so as not to rain on anyone’s parade. Maybe I should have. I rained all over the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and ended up having a great discussion on it. It’s tricky, though. I wonder what would happen if I blogged about Lizzy’s faults and how she almost ruined her family? :O
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By the way, how many comment levels do you have enabled here? Some of these comments are starting to look like e.e. cummings poems. 😉
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the comment is long. the indent is longer. verticality.
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Sylvia, oops, sorry to spoil that for you 😉 You are quite right about junk food books. I’ve seen some great analysis of 1970s bestselling pulp fiction. I think a post about Lizzy’s faults would be marvelous!
LOL, I think I have comments enabled to 6 or 7 levels. It does start to look rather e.e. cummings like after awhile, doesn’t it? And it inspired a lovely poetic outpouring from you that gave me a giggle 🙂
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all that white space
a snowy meadow
light air sky
words
would only
take up space
😉
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I would argue that there is an incompletely defined hierarchy of readings. What I mean is that there are some pairs of readings where one could be classified as ‘truer’ than another, but there also likely to be pairs of reading which come at a work from different direction and neither can be ‘truer’ than the other.
I’ve been thinking lately about trying to put something on my blog to encourage people to speak up with their differing opinions or interpretations. I would love it if more people commented like that. I would learn a lot.
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biblioglobal, I’m not quite clear on what you mean by pairs of readings. Do you mean how one person versus another reads a book? I suspect you might. If so, I agree. I think there is no one truest way to read a book which makes many true readings possible, so yeah, it is possible to have a pair of readings that are very different but equally valid. It would be a sad and boring reading world if that were not possible!
I don’t know if you read Tom’s linked post at Wuthering Expectations, but he suggests we have badges to let people know what sort of discussion we want. He says his would say “have at me!” I am warming to the idea. Mine might say, “respectful disagreement welcome” or something like that.
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Yes, that’s what I mean. In re-reading your post, I’ve realized that that’s pretty much what you said to begin with.
I hadn’t read the post, but I have now. I like the idea of the badges. I’ll have to work on that. He also makes a good point that to have a lively discussion you have to make an argument and give people something to disagree with.
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biblioglobal, yes, that is part of it, to get a good discussion, one must post something worth discussing!
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I think that if we’re merely talking about liking or not liking, there’s no right or wrong–I’ve liked many books that weren’t technically great and disliked many masterpieces. But I don’t think likes and dislikes are where the really interesting conversations happen. It’s what we thought and what we saw in a book that’s interesting. And in those areas, I tend to agree with you that there are multiple valid readings of most books but that some are “truer” (i.e., better supported by the text) than others.
As far as talking about differing readings in the blogosphere, it’s hard when you haven’t read the same books, which is why readalongs and reading groups can be so great. (And I do intend to join more Slaves readings for that very reason!) I think it can be useful to write about aspects of a book we’re uncertain about as it gives people an opening to present different views. And I like your idea of asking questions. Questions can be such a useful way to present a different reading without disagreeing in a confrontational way.
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But is it intellectually honest to ask questions as a means of inoffensively putting forward a contrasting opinion?
😉
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Ha ha! I see what you did there Sylvia 🙂 I don’t think it’s necessarily dishonest if the person asking the question is genuinely interested in the response.
And P.S., I’m another INTJ. I suspect there are a lot of INTJs in the bookish blogosphere. We get to take things apart and analyze them and them present our argument from the privacy of our own homes. What could be better?
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😉 Now that I think about it I do the question thing too just to make it clear that I’m not making a pronouncement from on high but opening a discussion. Apparently that’s not always clear to others. To my brain, any declarative statement is an invitation to debate, which is often where I go wrong. 😀
Hurrah for INTJs! I think you’re right, the book blogosphere is lousy with us. Things might be easier if we all posted our MBTI prominently but perhaps that would be too rational. 😉
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Ha! Maybe I will make a button that says “I’m an INTJ feel free to poke holes in my arguments”
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Teresa, I am not surprised you are a fellow INTJ. I bet we could start an INTJ book club and have quite a few members!
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Sylvia, you are wicked! 😀
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Tee hee! Couldn’t resist.
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Teresa, agreed. There is no right or wrong in liking and not liking. I shall forever be baffled about why people think The Great Gatsby is so great and I am sure plenty of people are baffled about why I like some of the books I do. But our critical thinking about books, our discussions of the hows and the whys and whats and even our experience with the book and how we went about reading it are the best things for discussion.
It is hard to have a good discussion when you haven’t read the book and you are right, that’s what make readalongs and group reads so fun. I look forward to whenever you might join the Slaves. There is a voting list up for our next book on the Slaves blog. Go take a look if you haven’t already! It does seem there are plenty of people who are interested in being able to disagree. Questions might just be one way. I bet others can come up with nonthreatening approaches as well. I will be on the look out in hopes of adding them to my toolkit! 🙂
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Blogging itself makes me a better reader because in shaping a post so that others can understand how and why I have reacted to a book I often find myself thinking more deeply about a text than I would otherwise have done.
I also remind myself very often of the way in which I used to help children learn to be more thoughtful readers which was based on a wonderful book by Aidan Chambers entitled ‘Tell Me’. His basic premise was that you never asked a child why they liked or disliked a book because you would inevitably lead to a platitude such as ‘because it was good’ or ‘because it was boring’. Instead you prefaced your request with the words ‘Tell me’. ‘Tell me about something you liked.’ Tell me about something that puzzled you.’ If you can get hold of a copy I recommend it to all ages.
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Alex, oh yes, I agree, blogging makes me a better reader too because I pay more attention when I read and think about the book more when I am done. I like that tell me approach. It is good for both writing a post and commenting on one. I will have to see if the library has that book.
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This is a tough one for me because sometimes I don’t feel like I have something overly thoughtful to say about a post but I do want the blogger to know I am listening and paying attention! For the most part, though, I do try and make sure my comments are thoughtful and engaging and I stray away from commenting just for the sake of it – I find that if I have opened up a comment window and then pause for a considerable amount of time it’s a good bet to move on.
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Courtney, I have to email you! Oh yes, comments can serve several purposes can’t they? Sometimes it is just to say, hi I am reading you, you aren’t blogging into the void. I think most people try to make thoughtful comments but I suspect many of us are reluctant to make a comment that disagrees with the blogger. Not that we always disagree, only our reluctance sometimes closes down the potential for some really interesting conversation.
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Hi Stefanie, I’m not sure I’d agree that a book has a finite number of interpretations, certainly if viewed over a sufficiently long period of time. If finite, then limited only by the number of readers and even then I interpret books differently at different ages and when read under different emotional circumstances. Having said that, only a finite number of interpretations can be sustained in coherent discussion, and some to a greater degree than others, hence I agree there is a definite hierarchy.
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Anthony, I think I see what you are getting at when you say you don’t necessarily agree that there are finite interpretations. I can agree with that because to every reader the book will have a different personal experiential meaning and even different meanings for the same reader over time. But yeah, when it comes to a discussion, there are only so many ways to interpret a work and some are better than others.
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My answers to the questions in paragraph 3:
Yes, book bloggers have a responsibility to help each other become better readers. Please mentally replace “book bloggers” with “critics.” This responsibility is an inherent characteristic of arts criticism.
We fulfill that responsibility by writing as well as we can.
That has a nice, crisp aphoristic smack to it, but of course it conceals a lot of difficulties. Writing criticism well also entails reading well, constructing good arguments, presenting convincing evidence, telling good jokes, paying attention to other writers and readers – many more items could be added to the list. Very few critics do all of them well!
Our book blogs are all critical exempla. Whatever we might say about an individual book, we are also demonstrating an approach to reading, an approach that likely leads to fruitful reading of some kinds of books and frustration with others.
My personal fantasy, unlike many readers, is not to read all of the books, but to master all of the approaches so that I read any book as well as possible. Thus, my need for book blogs, home of a seemingly endless number of approaches, each one helping me be a better reader.
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Tom, that does have a crisp aphoristic smack to it. I’ve not thought of the broader picture in terms of arts criticism but yeah, you are right. And even professional critics are always learning and working to improve.
I like your fantasy, it is even more ambitious than wanting to read all books. But really, what good does reading all books do unless you can read them as well as possible? Fantasy though it is, yours is the most practical and useful. I find I vacillate between the two but the older I get the more I want to stay on learning approaches that help me be a better reader. Book blogs are good places to hang out for that.
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We used to have an essay question that we’d trot out regularly for the critical theory people that went: ‘All readings are misreadings. Discuss.’ Oh how the students tore their hair! How we laughed! It was a good question, actually, and incredibly hard to answer. Every reading takes place at the expense of all sorts of other readings, because much as stories themselves assemble life with parts left out in favour of more salient parts, so readings pick and choose between details. You can’t help but do it. I think that being a better reader means developing the ability to recognise and acknowledge the partial nature of one’s own arguments, and having the openness of mind to envisage a story differently, when a new perspective is offered. Most ‘bad’ reading happens because the reader’s mind accepts only its own perspective.
This being said, I would certainly argue that there are some readings which are more satisfying than others, in that they make you sit back afterwards and say, yes, I might never have thought of it, but that opens up the book for me in productive and interesting ways. But I also think that we need time and history to move forward before we can come up with new readings that have not been argued over before and yet which strike us as satisfying. Knowledge always comes with a use-by date, at which point it will be surpassed by more knowledge. This is true in both science and the arts.
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Litlove, oh what a wicked essay question! It is a good one though. I agree with what you say about what being a better reader entails. It most certainly requires an open mindedness to a variety of perspectives. And sometimes those perspectives do only become available through time and history which is both a frustrating and an encouraging thought. One of the things age and reading have taught me is to feel more comfortable with grey areas and ambiguity and to even delight in them. It is interesting to watch law students struggle with coming to terms with the fact that even the law is not a black and white endeavor and they want it to be so very badly. “Knowledge always comes with a use-by date” I like how you put that. It is so true and so easy to forget.
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All readings are misreadings, and some misreadings are better than others.
Criticism is a creative act.
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Tom, “Criticism is a creative act” I like that!
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I think you have indeed taken Auden to heart–or maybe you always ask good questions, but this post has brought them to light–I’ve noticed lately you’ve asked some very good questions that have made me think about the books I’m reading in a different or unexpected way than usual–and it is most appreciated. Must try and be more thoughtful in my own reading/commenting in the blogosphere–lots of good things to think about–I’m afraid I’m too often lazy myself!
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Danielle, oh you noticed? 🙂 I am glad you like the questions because I like asking them because your answers tell me just a little bit more about your reading which never fails to be interesting!
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I suspect that most people reading this blog would be interested in becoming better readers but as people read for so many different reasons I’m not sure what would be helpful. For some reading better means reading more quantity for others better quality (by whatever standard they have adopted).
I would love to see more interpretive discussion but I fear many people find this to be difficult, boring or and undermines their enjoyment of “just reading.” I can understand and respect this approach to reading. We all come to books from different places and for different reasons.
Perhaps the best thing to do, if we want to become better readers, would be to organize an online discussion. Start with a group of people who want to be better readers. Then agree on what that might mean. Perhaps set up a framework or a few guidelines. Pick a book that everyone would read. Then try, as a group, to read it better–based on our criteria of what better reading is.
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severalfourmany, you are right, not everyone is interested in becoming a better reader. Some are quite content to read only blockbuster novels for the escape they offer. That is perfectly ok. Reading groups like you suggest are wonderful.
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I’m definitely guilty of making the throwaway comment as opposed to getting into more detail and really engaging. I pledge to do better with this. I do think we have a wonderful opportunity for real dialogue in the blogosphere and I want to be part of it.
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